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Post by Martin & Co on Oct 1, 2014 13:51:38 GMT -5
Hello my friend, our fight today in Welterweight was a rough one for you. Palestra Italica vs Martin & CoDo you have any questions about the fight, my tactics, your tactics, etc., because I believe it was a winnable fight for you, but your tactics and styles were not efficient, especially because I was the shorter fighter. Not sure of your stats yet, but inside against a shorter fighter is not smart tactics and it will definitely get your fighter killed. |
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Post by ryansgym on Oct 2, 2014 8:18:12 GMT -5
while you are at it palestra any questions on our fight, your loss as "The Aztec" to my guy, had a few thoughts I figured might help you on that one if you want to hear them
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Post by palestraitalica on Oct 2, 2014 10:33:35 GMT -5
Hello my friend, our fight today in Welterweight was a rough one for you. Palestra Italica vs Martin & CoDo you have any questions about the fight, my tactics, your tactics, etc., because I believe it was a winnable fight for you, but your tactics and styles were not efficient, especially because I was the shorter fighter. Not sure of your stats yet, but inside against a shorter fighter is not smart tactics and it will definitely get your fighter killed. Hi, thank you very very much and you're absolutely right, my tactic was inefficient but since I can't really blame myself for 6 first rounds (even if I'm asking if it was better to target body) in 7th round I really don't know why I throw in this stupid line : #if score < 13 - round then 6H/11/3 (inside). When I saw bout report I was stunned like my fighter. Like a cartoon I had a big question mark on my head asking myself what the hell I was thinking when I wrote this line (under a 7th round !). The only thing that I can say is that I'm writing so many fp in these days that it's possible that maybe I've done some cut/paste for all score and endurance conditionals and when I cut some of them I forgot to put # before this crazy line. When I opened my fp to see what was going on, I found that from round 7 it was like that: 7) 7/5/8 (feint); if score < 10 - round then 9/5/6 (feint); if score > 10 - round then 8/4/8 (feint); if score < 13 - round then 6H/11/3 (inside); 11) 8/5/7 (feint); if score > 13 - round then 5H/5/10 (counter); if score < 13 - round then 10/5/5 (feint); 1) if score > 14 - round and roundswon > roundslost then 1/1/18 (counter); 1) if score > 14 - round then 1H/1/18 (counter); 1) if opp > 0 and endurance_percent < 47 then towel; Maybe it was not enough to win but I'm quite sure I'd have not taken that bad ko. Anyway, please, feel free to add any additional comments that you think may be helpful. Thank you  while you are at it palestra any questions on our fight, your loss as "The Aztec" to my guy, had a few thoughts I figured might help you on that one if you want to hear them Thank you very much to you too ryan but Aztec is built in a very very wrong way, I'm really too ashamed to show his stats. I'm not throwing him away because I read here that Zam had fun in taking discarded fighters and change their builds with intensive training. I'm trying to do the same with Aztec to fix all the terrible things I did when I created him. But let me asking a question about that because I'm asking myself if I'm not waisting my time: when it's time to really discard a fighter, when we can say that a fighter is hopeless and that he doesn't worth our time anymore et maybe it's better to create another one with decent stats? Thanks! |
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Post by ryansgym on Oct 2, 2014 10:58:08 GMT -5
I think at this point you are better off tossing him and rebuilding, while you are learning it is better to have a decent build, when you have a better grasp on the sim you can try to get cute and fix strange builds, but no point in adding more challenge than is already there trying to learn the game with a bad build
and bad build or not, you need to figure out a way realize you aren't winning rounds or endurance and at least try something else, probably in this case slapping to try and win and give up on the endurance battle, drop power in favor of just enough agg to win rounds and everything else in def, might not have worked, especially with a bad build, but it would have made me have to respond if you started winning rounds. No one is perfect, and there is a reason I am listed as a student, you might have gotten lucky changing things up and found that my plan didn't adjust for what you did
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Post by palestraitalica on Oct 2, 2014 11:30:09 GMT -5
I think at this point you are better off tossing him and rebuilding, while you are learning it is better to have a decent build, when you have a better grasp on the sim you can try to get cute and fix strange builds, but no point in adding more challenge than is already there trying to learn the game with a bad build and bad build or not, you need to figure out a way realize you aren't winning rounds or endurance and at least try something else, probably in this case slapping to try and win and give up on the endurance battle, drop power in favor of just enough agg to win rounds and everything else in def, might not have worked, especially with a bad build, but it would have made me have to respond if you started winning rounds. No one is perfect, and there is a reason I am listed as a student, you might have gotten lucky changing things up and found that my plan didn't adjust for what you did You're right, my fp was not at all flexible. I thought that sticking with the endurance battle I could have my chance. Maybe before I retire him I'll try, for 2 other fights, to use this fighter more like a test to see if I can develop a fp more efficient. If I can win just one fight with this crap I'll know that I've really learnt something! |
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SIN
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Post by SIN on Oct 2, 2014 12:47:01 GMT -5
"if score < 13 - round then 6H/11/3 (inside);"
That line basically cancelled out the other ones above it if the fight was anywhere close. It is generally a bad line to use... Remember the parser will recognize the last true statement in the fp.
You must try to be more efficient. Your goal in efficiency is to fight in a way that maximizes your opponents endurance loss while minimizing your own endurance loss. It's not just about dealing damage. To be a good endurance fighter you must learn this first. What can I do that gives me the best chance of staying in a fight? Once you realize how to stay competitive, you can focus on winning these fights.
Choosing a "primary fighting style" is essential because style bonuses are so important. Don't be afraid of the AGG penalties that you get from "clinch" and "counter." If the matchup calls for using these - use them. And don't forget about the penalties for using a particular style. Inside is great for dealing damage, but it's not efficient because of the damage penalty you receive. Feint is great for winning rounds, but it's not efficient because of the fatigue penalty you receive. Focus a bit more on understanding style choices. It will help a lot.
Ryan is right - you can tailor a fp to win with a bad build, but will that help you learn to be successful with good builds? The time spent on this is better served in learning. You can retire these bad builds and come back to them later to try to revive their careers. More likely is the fact that you will realize with their ips they aren't worth trying. You may get a RT out of a select few, but a WT is unlikely. Zam took a lot of discards and did great, but he knew which to choose and which to leave alone. You aren't quite there yet.
Generally a fighter will be better left inactive after an AP lost. If he's close to a title, you may keep him around until he loses 2-3. If you are trying to progress through the rankings though it will be a difficult journey with multiple AP's lost. Again some managers can do this. Again, you're not there yet. I suggest you retire bad builds and focus more on good built fighters. They won't leave your gym unless you throw them out.
Another suggestion - keep your gym size manageable in relation to how much time you are able to spend learning and incorporating what you just learned. Most gyms here that have a lot of successful fighters have a large fp library to use. If you think you can focus more time on dissecting matchups, simming, and fight planning by running less fighters - then run less fighters. Once you have a large library of good fightplans, you can run more fighters. You may think you can learn more by having more fights, but I think it's best to have a few fights a day that you can really focus on intensely, rather than a dozen or more that take away from time spent learning the game.
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Post by SIN on Oct 2, 2014 13:09:46 GMT -5
I think you might have meant "if score < 13 - round"
These two are easy to mix up, but mean two very different things...
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Post by Martin & Co on Oct 2, 2014 13:14:08 GMT -5
I crunched some numbers and I believe I have your stats. I won't reveal on the board. I'll pm you and you can let me know if I'm off or not.
But anyway... Look at the real fight again and the fight plan you used
Now I simmed this in the practice simulator: I used the same exact fight plan that WelterBoy used in the fight, but I tweaked your fight plan to something that I would have done against a shorter fighter.
1) 5/7/8 (counter);
2) 5B/7/8 (counter);
4) 6/7/7 (counter);
if score >= 1 and endurance_percent <= 76 then 1/1/9 (outside);
6) 5B/7/8 (counter);
7) 6/7/7 (counter);
if score >= 1 then 5B/8/7 (counter);
if score >= 1 and endurance_percent <= 74 then 1/1/9 (outside);
10) 8/6/6 (feint);
if score > 1 then 5B/8/7 (counter);
if score = 1 then 5B/8/7 (counter);
if score < 1 then 9/6/5 (feint);
if score <= 0 then 10/4/6 (feint);
1) if round > 11 and opp = 1 and endurance_percent > 67 then 5H/11!/4 (counter);
1) if opp = 0 then 5H/11/4 (counter);
1) if score > 14 - round then 1/1/18 (outside);
1) if score > 14 - round and opp <= 1 and endurance_percent > 67 then 4H/6/10 (counter);
And here is the result:
In this corner, standing 5 feet and 9 inches (175 centimeters) tall weighing in at 147 pounds (67 kilograms) with a record of 0 wins, 0 draws, and 0 losses is Martin`s "WelterBoy II"!!
In this corner, standing 6 feet (183 centimeters) tall weighing in at 147 pounds (67 kilograms) with a record of 0 wins, 0 draws, and 0 losses is Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami!!
This bout is scheduled for 12 rounds.
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ROUND 1
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WelterBoy II goes toe-to-toe (inside).
Harakiri is counter-punching (counter-punching).
...
BELL!
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" landed 43 of 65 punches -- 13 power punches, 17 jabs, 13 rights. (125 points)
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami landed 24 of 40 punches -- 13 power punches, 0 jabs, 11 rights. (85 points)
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" won the round 10-9 by landing more punches.
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" is winning the fight 10-9.
WelterBoy II doesn't need to rest.
Harakiri doesn't need to rest.
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ROUND 2
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WelterBoy II goes toe-to-toe (inside) and goes to the body.
Harakiri is counter-punching (counter-punching) and goes to the body.
...
BELL!
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" landed 19 of 49 punches -- 10 power punches, 0 jabs, 9 rights. (67 points)
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami landed 18 of 38 punches -- 10 power punches, 0 jabs, 8 rights. (64 points)
This round was a 10-10 tie.
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" is winning the fight 20-19.
WelterBoy II doesn't need to rest.
Harakiri doesn't need to rest.
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ROUND 3
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WelterBoy II goes toe-to-toe (inside) and goes to the body.
Harakiri is counter-punching (counter-punching) and goes to the body.
...
BELL!
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" landed 17 of 46 punches -- 9 power punches, 0 jabs, 8 rights. (60 points)
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami landed 18 of 40 punches -- 10 power punches, 0 jabs, 8 rights. (64 points)
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami won the round 10-9 with more accurate punching.
The fight is too close to call at this point.
WelterBoy II remains standing while the trainer wipes him down.
Harakiri doesn't need to rest.
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ROUND 4
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WelterBoy II goes toe-to-toe (inside) and goes to the body.
Harakiri is counter-punching (counter-punching).
...
BELL!
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" landed 19 of 44 punches -- 10 power punches, 0 jabs, 9 rights. (67 points)
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami landed 29 of 46 punches -- 13 power punches, 3 jabs, 13 rights. (97 points)
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami won the round 10-9 by landing more punches.
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami is winning the fight 39-38.
WelterBoy II remains standing while the trainer wipes him down. He has bleeding below his right eye.
Harakiri remains standing while the trainer wipes him down.
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ROUND 5
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WelterBoy II goes toe-to-toe (inside).
Harakiri is counter-punching (counter-punching).
...
BELL!
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" landed 37 of 60 punches -- 9 power punches, 19 jabs, 9 rights. (101 points)
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami landed 27 of 46 punches -- 12 power punches, 3 jabs, 12 rights. (90 points)
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" won the round 10-9 by landing more punches.
The fight is too close to call at this point.
WelterBoy II grabs a water bottle and rests on his stool. He has bleeding below his right eye.
Harakiri remains standing while the trainer wipes him down.
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ROUND 6
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WelterBoy II goes toe-to-toe (inside).
Harakiri is counter-punching (counter-punching) and goes to the body.
...
BELL!
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" landed 33 of 59 punches -- 8 power punches, 17 jabs, 8 rights. (90 points)
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami landed 16 of 37 punches -- 9 power punches, 0 jabs, 7 rights. (57 points)
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" won the round 10-9 by landing more punches.
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" is winning the fight 58-57.
WelterBoy II grabs a water bottle and rests on his stool. He has bleeding below his right eye.
Harakiri remains standing while the trainer wipes him down.
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ROUND 7
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WelterBoy II goes toe-to-toe (inside).
Harakiri is counter-punching (counter-punching).
...
BELL!
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" landed 26 of 59 punches -- 11 power punches, 4 jabs, 11 rights. (85 points)
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami landed 31 of 43 punches -- 14 power punches, 3 jabs, 14 rights. (104 points)
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami won the round 10-9 with more accurate punching.
The fight is too close to call at this point.
WelterBoy II grabs a water bottle and rests on his stool. He has bleeding below his right eye.
Harakiri remains standing while the trainer wipes him down.
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ROUND 8
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WelterBoy II goes toe-to-toe (inside).
Harakiri is counter-punching (counter-punching).
...
BELL!
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" landed 30 of 69 punches -- 7 power punches, 16 jabs, 7 rights. (81 points)
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami landed 25 of 44 punches -- 11 power punches, 3 jabs, 11 rights. (83 points)
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami won the round 10-9 . It was a close round, but Harakiri seemed to land harder punches.
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami is winning the fight 77-76.
WelterBoy II is obviously tired. He has bleeding below his right eye.
Harakiri remains standing while the trainer wipes him down.
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ROUND 9
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WelterBoy II goes toe-to-toe (inside).
Harakiri is counter-punching (counter-punching) and goes to the body.
...
BELL!
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" landed 30 of 64 punches -- 7 power punches, 16 jabs, 7 rights. (81 points)
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami landed 17 of 37 punches -- 11 power punches, 0 jabs, 6 rights. (62 points)
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" won the round 10-9 by landing more punches.
The fight is too close to call at this point.
WelterBoy II is obviously tired. He has bleeding below his right eye.
Harakiri grabs a water bottle and rests on his stool.
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ROUND 10
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WelterBoy II moves and jabs (using the ring).
Harakiri feints and fakes (feinting).
...
BELL!
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" landed 86 of 104 punches -- 3 power punches, 80 jabs, 3 rights. (181 points)
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami landed 83 of 90 punches -- 9 power punches, 65 jabs, 9 rights. (193 points)
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami won the round 10-9 with accurate power punches.
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami is winning the fight 96-95.
WelterBoy II is obviously tired. He has bleeding below his right eye.
Harakiri grabs a water bottle and rests on his stool.
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ROUND 11
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WelterBoy II moves and jabs (using the ring).
Harakiri is counter-punching (counter-punching) and goes to the body.
...
BELL!
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" landed 59 of 108 punches -- 3 power punches, 53 jabs, 3 rights. (127 points)
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami landed 19 of 39 punches -- 12 power punches, 0 jabs, 7 rights. (69 points)
Martin`s "WelterBoy II" won the round 10-9 by landing more punches.
The fight is too close to call at this point.
WelterBoy II is sucking wind. He has bleeding below his right eye.
Harakiri grabs a water bottle and rests on his stool.
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ROUND 12
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WelterBoy II feints and jabs aggressively (feinting).
Harakiri waits for the right opportunity (counter-punching) and he's head hunting.
...
Harakiri lands a bone crunching blow to the temple and WelterBoy II topples to the canvass!!
ONE!
TWO!
THREE!
FOUR!
FIVE!
SIX!
SEVEN!
EIGHT!
NINE!
WelterBoy II doesn't look like he'll beat the count -- but he does! and the fight goes on!
...
Harakiri lands a decisive left haymaker and WelterBoy II's legs turn to jelly -- down he goes!!
ONE!
TWO!
THREE!
FOUR!
FIVE!
SIX!
SEVEN!
EIGHT!
NINE!
...
Harakiri lands a terrific blow to the head and WelterBoy II goes down!! The Referee stops the fight!!
Haruki "Harakiri" Murakami wins by a Knock Out!!
Time: 2:43
WelterBoy II looks exhausted. He has bleeding below his right eye.
Harakiri grabs a water bottle and rests on his stool.
In general you always want to fight as efficiently as you can. Counter would have beat my fight plan, as you can see.
Remember to always fight to your fighter's strength, meaning if you are taller use: counter, outside, ring; this way you will get the bonuses you need for your fights. |
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Post by Martin & Co on Oct 2, 2014 13:18:02 GMT -5
And I would keep that fighter, you can use him as a reminder of your first WeBL steps. Once you start winning titles and such, you can resurrect him, but know how to run him effectively, even though he may be a bad build.
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Post by palestraitalica on Oct 2, 2014 18:15:02 GMT -5
Thank you sin and martin, and you all have a point, I'll retire bad builded fighters and I'll create new ones. (The good thing with WeBL is that there so much work to do and so many things to learn that when I go to my real work, well, it seems a lot more easy ) |
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Post by Martin & Co on Oct 2, 2014 19:35:33 GMT -5
Cheers.
Happy to help.
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Post by ryansgym on Oct 3, 2014 6:50:51 GMT -5
I am going to have to remember this thread, I think I have gotten Sin to admit I was right about something twice, and don't worry Palestra you will get there, ask Sin how bad I was when I first joined this forum, and now I have a WT that shows up beside my name so it can be done
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Post by palestraitalica on Oct 3, 2014 8:51:48 GMT -5
and don't worry Palestra you will get there, ask Sin how bad I was when I first joined this forum, and now I have a WT that shows up beside my name so it can be done Yes thank you, I'll keep the faith Anyway in this "new" webl after crash I find it's much more difficult to win even at low levels, maybe because there're almost all diehard webl lovers, old champs but I remember that when I started to play, week 273, I was bad as I am now, I took my bad beats with albino, europhoria, suntouchers but however I had 1 regional title fight in Junior-Fly, another one in Bantam (all lost, hey that's me ), 1 heavy with a not so bad record, at least for my standards, (12-4-1) and 1 promising superfly. Now I'm paying all the luck I had long time ago, maybe it's my karma, I absolutely have to prey that this game will fill again with all the newbies, worst than me, that were around in the old times... |
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Posts: 458
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Post by SIN on Oct 3, 2014 9:02:06 GMT -5
Palestra - Oh yes that was at a time when there were new players galore. It won't be quite so easy anymore. You could rack up some nice records in those days. Now is much more competitive with the lower number of new players and the high number of veterans... Once you figure out these things about scouting, styles, efficiency, fight planning, etc. though you will be ahead of 50% of players of the game and can compete well against the rest. Ryan - you are welcome  |
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Post by ryansgym on Oct 3, 2014 10:21:39 GMT -5
is that your welcome for admitting I was right or for not talking about how bad I used to be
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