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Post by ryansgym on May 28, 2013 13:27:59 GMT -5
My HW up coming opponent, and my scouting is clearly not were I need it to be so I would love someone walking me through scouting this one, I have the basic idea that I am giving up some str and have an advantage at AGL, would love to know where you think SPD is at so I can decide if they have enough to successfully counter me or not, and what to do about it either way
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Post by AltruisticArtist on May 28, 2013 15:41:39 GMT -5
I posted what I thought his build was in the Fight Plans thread you started about trying for the title, but I'll post how I figured him out
His height is 25, plug that in
always use 13-14 Con, and 8-10 Chn
Put his Spd somewhere reasonable. I started at 10 and played with his Str and Agi
7 Str 8 Agi, Very Heavy puts him at 318.2 in his first fight
+1 Agi makes him 312.1 in second fight. This is why I feel 99% certain I have his S/A/B figured
Second fight he probably trained Speed as his weight didn't change from 2nd-3rd fight
Third fight my guess is he trained Chin as he was going against an (allout) flasher.
+1 Agi
+1 Spd
+1 Chn
So, starting I believe he is:
Str: 7 KOP: 0
Spd: 8 Agi: 8
Chn: 8 Con: 13
Build: VH
And at 3(3) status he is:
Str: 7 KOP: 0
Spd: 9 Agi: 9
Chn: 9 Con: 13
Build: VH
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Post by ghosts on May 28, 2013 19:07:03 GMT -5
I'm going to disagree on the scout of yours - I believe the fighter to have KP and I would at bare minimum start chin at 9 but more than likely it is 10. The reason why he has to have KP is, if he didn't he would have been knocked out by Dev Inc's fighter in his last fight. There is no way that build you have posted would have survived an allout from a flasher with 8 chin especially while targeting the body. The only thing that might change is -1 from Cond and add that to speed.
This is what I believe his starting build to be
Str - 7
KP - 2
Spd -4
Agl - 8
Chin - 10
Cond - 13
Build - VH
By 3/3
Str - 7
KP - 2
Spd - 6
Agl - 9
Chin - 10
Cond 13
Build - VH
His fighter will basically punch himself into exhaustion - mix some moderate body lines with some lines to keep the score close and then at the end of the fight you should be able to get the easy knockout or points decision win. You should most definitely have a speed advantage so use counter both to the body and also to score (not point slapping him early - power shots will help drain him - 6/7/7 etc etc
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Post by ghosts on May 28, 2013 20:14:02 GMT -5
Following on from the other thread.
His Height 25 points + at most 6 points for speed = 31 (worst case)
My scout of you height 22 points and 10 points of speed = 32
Counter is a viable option - the difference is small but that will increase as the fight wears on and his endurance loss means his speed is reduced even further.
When simming any fight YOU MUST put in the rating of both fighters in the sim - otherwise you will get different results.
Looking at the fights he has had he started with what looks to be 5B/8/7 (counter) against shorter fighters in teh first round before swapping to 7/2/11 and 6/3/11 (outside) in round 2 and 3
If you go 4B/7/9 (counter) in teh first you should win that round against his 5B/8/7.
1) 4B/7/9 (counter)
2) 4B/7/9 (counter)
if endurance_percent * 10 > 1000 - (round-1)*50 then 4B/8/8 (counter)
if score < round - 5 then 6/7/7 (counter)
5) 4B/8/8 (counter)
if endurance_percent * 10 > 1000 - (round-1)*50 then 4B/9/7 (counter)
if endurance_percent * 10 > 1000 - (round-1)*50 and opp <= 1 and endurance_percent >= 67 then 4B/10/6 (counter)
if score < 0 and score < round - 5 then 6/7/7 (counter)
That should give you a good enough start on a fight plan to beat him. A very easy fight for you to win.
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Post by Sanford on May 28, 2013 20:20:29 GMT -5
I was going to agree with Ghosts, but I'm not so sure now. In the last fight against the flasher, Tricky's fighter got a huge strength advantage due to weight. I did the math quickly, but Tricky's fighter got nearly 8 points of strength. He then gained 1 more point of strength for counterpunching.
+9 strength
He has a 17 inch height advantage. Let's say for the sake of argument that the speed of both fighters is equal. Because of the counterpunching, he gains nearly 6 points of agility and his opponent loses some agility (doubtful that he loses the full 6 points)
+6 agility
Now because Tricky's opponent is using allout, the damage Tricky's fighter does is quadrupled. He's punching to the body. The endurance damage alone would KO the smaller fighter in such a great mismatch and the boost in agility that Tricky's fighter got kept him from getting stunned. I'm guessing he was using 3b/7/10 (counter).
Update:
I simmed (no luck) AA's fighter using 3b/7/10 (counter) against various 5'8" 215 lb. flashers using 5h/10/5 (allout), The result was the same every time. Tricky's fighter wins by KO in 1 without getting stunned.
AA impresses me again with his scouting.
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Post by ryansgym on May 28, 2013 20:38:35 GMT -5
Alright, I will try to play with both possibilities given here. I think either way I should be able to win the endurance battle, just a question of how aggressively I go after him and how
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Post by cozar on May 28, 2013 20:44:28 GMT -5
Duplicate post
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Post by cozar on May 28, 2013 20:55:20 GMT -5
There is no way that build you have posted would have survived an allout from a flasher with 8 chin especially while targeting the body. I agree with Sanford based on my own simming experiment. I scouted the 7'1" as follows: STR: 9, KP: 0 SPD: 6(7), AGL: 8(9) CHN: 9, CND: 12 Build: LH It fits the weight progression. Simming that against a flasher with 22STR, 7KP, 11 SPD, 6 AGL, 10 CHN, 6 CND (which fits the starting and finishing weight of his opponent), a 5B/7/8 (counter) plan in the first round would earn a KO against the flasher going allout. While I was there, I used Altruistic's stats too, STR 7, SPD 9, AGL 9, CHN 9, CND 13, VH and that also wins against a 5H/11!/4 (allout) plan. From the looks of it, the flasher opponent won his first two rounds because the first guy used clinch without a strength advantage and the second guy didn't get a STR bonus from his weight. The 7'1" , 312 lb. fighter compared to the 5'8", 215 lb. flasher is getting about 7 points of strength from weight bonus and 8.5 points of AGL from height. Throw in the AGL bonus from counter and that is a huge AP bonus that the flasher couldn't overcome. |
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Post by ghosts on May 28, 2013 21:04:46 GMT -5
I will stand corrected - I think AA is definitely on the money and I am wrong.. I just did what you did Sanford and even trying a Breman like flasher I can't find a build that beats AA's build with 9 chin and no KP.. Very nice work AA.
Now that changes everythign about the tactics you should use. This is going to be a little more tricky than I first thought.. The beauty for you is he takes about 11 points of fatigue each round which gives you a massive advantage.
Counter is definitely not a viable option anymore.
I would still go down the path I suggested but use no style - You don't have a stength advantage due to the bonus he adds for being heavier than you (48 pounds as teh cut off is at 300 pounds from memory.)
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Post by AltruisticArtist on May 29, 2013 2:51:18 GMT -5
STR: 9, KP: 0 SPD: 6(7), AGL: 8(9) CHN: 9, CND: 12 Build: LH It fits the weight progression. Just ran your numbers, the reason I think it is 7 Str and VH build is because most people stick with VH or VL. Also 9str-8agi-LH is 318.5 and would have been rounded to 319 in his first fight. I'd still suggest using (clinch) during the body rounds, (i probably wouldn't even try for score unless score < -3.) the loss in AGG shouldn't matter much and the rest and +1 agi i feel outweigh going no style. |
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Post by ryansgym on May 29, 2013 10:38:33 GMT -5
alright, so I know what he is now, and have an idea of my fight plan, though I will be tweaking it and adding conditionals as I get closer to the fight, what should I train that is the best combination of long term build viability and help me win this fight
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Post by ryansgym on May 29, 2013 10:47:31 GMT -5
also what do you guys think of throwing a surprise 5B/10/5 no style round at him in the 2nd or 3rd round when he goes into slap mode to accelerate his endurance loss, I would hate to smash him to the point of barely standing but not quite get the KO and lose on points like his last opponent
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Post by ghosts on May 30, 2013 1:50:08 GMT -5
also what do you guys think of throwing a surprise 5B/10/5 no style round at him in the 2nd or 3rd round when he goes into slap mode to accelerate his endurance loss, I would hate to smash him to the point of barely standing but not quite get the KO and lose on points like his last opponent What happens if he doesn't slap? You're screwed.. If you tie it into your endurance you might be right, also use 4//10/6 to reduce your fatigue penalty |
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Post by ryansgym on May 30, 2013 6:49:54 GMT -5
ok, here is my starting point for this one, obviously it is just a how I think it will go plan and not much in the way of conditionals to deal with him doing something other than I expect (though from my scouting of him it looks like he will do what I am planning for) any thoughts? I know I need to add some contingiency plans here but what do I need to be looking for?
1)3b/8/9(clinch)
2)if endurance_percent > 100 - (round - 1) * 2 then 5B/10/5;
3)4b/8/8(clinch)
9) 5B/10/5
if warnings=0 then cheat
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Post by ryansgym on May 30, 2013 6:54:47 GMT -5
oh and just to explain what I was thinking the first round is designed to try to let him win the first round but do some damage to his endurance, the second round conditional is if he isn't doing much damage then I will hammer him and really start off with a endurance advantage, then settle into an effecient line to work the body without taking to much damage myself and once he will be exhausted (even without my body work his build will leave him exhausted by round 9) and then just start to hammer the body until he can't come back from it
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