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Post by palestraitalica on Feb 26, 2015 12:35:02 GMT -5
Let's say that I've a counterpouncher or a dancer and I want to take the win just slapping. I still have doubts about how many pow points, if any needed, I have to put in my lines. Let's take this exemple: 8) if endurance_percent > 85 then 12/1/7 (outside); If I'm quite sure that I'll not need 7 in DEF because I've scouted my opp and his fighter is a Sissy and I can write something like: X/X/5, where I should put my 2 points? On AGG to be sure to win rounds? I had to add them to POW (does really 3 POW makes some difference?) ? Or I just take my defense up to 7 and I write a line for round 9 testing the score, something like: 9) if score < X then 14/1/5 (outside/feint)? (I still make a lot of mistakes at the end of the fight, I feel that I'm still lacking in the correct way of reasoning in middle/last rounds) Thanks again  |
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Post by ryansgym on Feb 26, 2015 12:59:50 GMT -5
I think the best way to look at this is to think why would I need power:
1) Endurance battle, you have said you want to slap so I assume that we can check this no and move on
2) to counter a flash attempt, if they have KP you might want some power if you start to get ahead because they might try to flash, though in that situation you are probably less concerned with agg as you are already ahead and are going high in defense and power and targeting the head to hopefully stun/knock down/KO if they try the flash)
3) your own attempt to get a stun/knockdown/KO once again if your stated goal is slapping this doesn't seem like it applies
so if you are strictly just slapping power isn't really useful, if you aren't trying to keep up in the endurance, so then you have to decide how much of a threat they are to out score you and how much of a threat they are to do damage to you and then adjust points to agg or def accordingly
Disclaimer: I don't run sissy types much so slapping isn't really my area, but that is my take for what it is worth
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Post by palestraitalica on Feb 26, 2015 18:06:36 GMT -5
I think the best way to look at this is to think why would I need power: 1) Endurance battle, you have said you want to slap so I assume that we can check this no and move on 2) to counter a flash attempt, if they have KP you might want some power if you start to get ahead because they might try to flash, though in that situation you are probably less concerned with agg as you are already ahead and are going high in defense and power and targeting the head to hopefully stun/knock down/KO if they try the flash) 3) your own attempt to get a stun/knockdown/KO once again if your stated goal is slapping this doesn't seem like it applies so if you are strictly just slapping power isn't really useful, if you aren't trying to keep up in the endurance, so then you have to decide how much of a threat they are to out score you and how much of a threat they are to do damage to you and then adjust points to agg or def accordingly Disclaimer: I don't run sissy types much so slapping isn't really my area, but that is my take for what it is worth Thanks ryan, it makes sense. Thank you PS Some days ago I sent you a message here, by any chance you read it? Thanks again  |
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Post by llecha on Feb 26, 2015 19:45:10 GMT -5
ryans is absolutely correct
you may put 3 in power only when you have some KP and you try to defend vs possible opp's allout
In general lines like 14/1/5 are super aggressive, if opp is so aggressive that you think about this, maybe you'd better think about 5H/12/3 (feint)/(inside)/allout vs power 1 jabs
9) if score <= 1 then 12/1/7
if round = 11 and score <= 0 then 5H/12/3
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Post by llecha on Feb 26, 2015 19:56:06 GMT -5
And I never use lines like 8) if endurance_percent > 85 then 12/1/7 (outside);
What do they mean? What for? What if your endurance = 80 or 70? or even 60?
There're 2 basic options:
1. you're fresh and opp = tired
2. all others
If you're fresh and he's tired then you should use power punches- 8/6/6, 9/6/5, 8/7/5
If not then -no matter how fresh or tired you are- it's jabs. Your aggression depends on presupposed opp's aggression only
it's in general and we discuss the ending slapping
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Post by palestraitalica on Feb 27, 2015 6:20:49 GMT -5
In general lines like 14/1/5 are super aggressive, if opp is so aggressive that you think about this, maybe you'd better think about 5H/12/3 (feint)/(inside)/allout vs power 1 jabs 9) if score <= 1 then 12/1/7 if round = 11 and score <= 0 then 5H/12/3 Even if I have no KP (and my fighter has not so much STR)? well I think you pointed out my real problem in ending fights. I put in endurance test line because I was telling myself that according to my endurance i can choose to slap more/low my defenses... But reading your post I understand that thinking in this way it's a mistake. Now what I still miss is when you say "If you're fresh and he's tired then you should use power punches". My dumb questions: 1) Why? If he's tired why I should not take my chance in slapping more then he could do? 2) I can throw some pow punches even if I have not enough STR? (At least I don't know if STR is enough or not, I still am not able to judge if a build like, let's say, 10 STR/0 KP/19 SPD/20 AGL... is "enough" STR or not). Thanks again |
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Post by ryansgym on Feb 27, 2015 8:55:41 GMT -5
I thought I did respond to that message palestra, I will check again though, I did see it
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Post by ryansgym on Feb 27, 2015 11:45:35 GMT -5
ok, I guess my response never made it through so I sent one again, and to answer your question, if you have managed to wear him down and are still fresh you should be able to punish him, if it is tied going into the 12th or the score is getting away from you then sure just try to outslap and get the win, but if you have an endurance advantage you should be looking to widen that, if you really have no STR whatsoever then you probably wouldn't end up in a position where you were winning the endurance war anyway
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Post by palestraitalica on Feb 28, 2015 6:51:56 GMT -5
I thought I did respond to that message palestra, I will check again though, I did see it Thank you very much |
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Post by llecha on Feb 28, 2015 17:09:46 GMT -5
10 str is a decent one, but it's definitely not enough to stun easily
a lot of stuff depend on opp's stats and his aggression at the moment. If his chin is good, if he's tired, how aggressive he is.
But when we talk about these numbers of aggression 12-14, you should always bear it in your mind- what if to try to stun him.
If your opp always use jabs with power = 1 then allout is a good option, it doubles your str. In general this type is designed to win with slapping of course, stuns ain't his strong point. But when you think about 14/1/5 to overslap your opp it means that he's super aggressive too, in this case- stun attempt may work.
If none of the fighters has not won endurance war by the end of their fight then both try to win with slapping. And in this moment you may either try to overslap your opp or try to stun him.
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Post by llecha on Feb 28, 2015 17:51:49 GMT -5
...But reading your post I understand that thinking in this way it's a mistake...
it's not a mistake, but don't get mixed up with all these lines and conditions. Sometimes guys make such long FPs that they stop understanding what line works and when and why it starts to work. You don't need HUGE FPs with all possible variants of what could happen. AoP (one of the best managers) told once that his FPs are very short, about 15-20 lines. Cos when you facing a good manager some things just can't happen. Like this your one
8) if endurance_percent > 85 then 12/1/7 (outside);
If you face me for example- what should I do to let you have endurance > 85 in round 8 or later?! I can't imagine it. Maybe if I forget to put my FP in it could happen, in all other cases this will never happen (for non KP fighters of course).
...Why? If he's tired why I should not take my chance in slapping more then he could do?...
You just should use your advantage. And make it grow. The main thing here is to win endurance war, after this your opp has very poor chances to win. Becoming more and more tired he becomes weaker and weaker, he throws fewer punches, these punchers become weaker. You should press your success. Power punches makes him weaker and weaker with every round, his conditions goes down faster and faster. Your jabs may allow him to rest successfully cos you deal no damage.
...I can throw some pow punches even if I have not enough STR? (At least I don't know if STR is enough or not, I still am not able to judge if a build like, let's say, 10 STR/0 KP/19 SPD/20 AGL... is "enough" STR or not)...
10 is enough, it's not big, but it's enough. You may use lines like 9/6/5, 8/7/5, 10/5/5 feint or inside vs taller guys in the end (depending on how aggressive they are), and lines like 6/8/6, 7/7/6 counter vs shorter guys
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Post by palestraitalica on Mar 2, 2015 17:56:16 GMT -5
Thank you very very much lille, again, really thanks. I owe you a beer, well much more than just one so I hope you like beers ^^
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Post by llecha on Mar 3, 2015 16:16:17 GMT -5
Sometimes it won't work though, but IN GENERAL it's correct, and most of times you'll win.
And the judges prefer power punches, you will see something like this very often:
ROUND 3
Ernesto "Chico" Hernandes has 128.9 endurance points remaining.
Your tactics: aggressiveness = 8.0, power = 6.0, defense = 6.0, resting 0.0
Chico goes toe-to-toe (inside).
Pepper dances around the ring (using the ring).
Ernesto "Chico" Hernandes landed 27 of 65 punches -- 5 power punches, 17 jabs, 5 rights. (69 points)
Jerome Pepper landed 31 of 63 punches -- 3 power punches, 25 jabs, 3 rights. (71 points)
This round was a 10-10 tie.
But 2 of 3 judges say I won this round:
Judge Roy Bean scores the fight as follows: Round 3: Ernesto "Chico" Hernandes 10-9
Judge Judy scores the fight as follows: Round 3: Ernesto "Chico" Hernandes 10-9
Judge Lao Mang Chen scores the fight as follows: Round 3: A 10-10 tie.
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Post by palestraitalica on Mar 4, 2015 19:35:06 GMT -5
Yep noticed that, I'm changing my fp according to this, thank you very much |
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Post by SIN on Mar 5, 2015 9:17:55 GMT -5
Another thing I just want to add to this conversation for Palestra. If you're talking about efficiency in slapping or power punching - Always keep in mind fatigue. Like LILLE said the judges value POW > AGG if scoring is close, but AGG factors into the fatigue formula at twice the rate of what POW does
(something like (AGG+((1/2)POW) / COND).
^not sure this is the exact equation but it's close...
So if you try to out-slap a sissy with a counterpuncher, youre gonna fatigue at a faster rate than he and find yourself losing losing an endurance war that doesn't even exist. The goal should often be to win enough rounds to get his AGG up, and then hit him with some serious POW. Then when he's weakened, you can decide late in the fight to slap him (easier because he's weakened) OR flash him (easier because he's weakened)
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